**Distribute freely**
I try very hard to live without transferring my issues to others, especially in this community. What anyone else does is, in general, their own business. I do have something I’ve been thinking about lately, though, that I plan to just deal with on a personal level, but I would like to mention it here to promote it a bit.
I’m interested in promoting oral barrier protection in the community. I don’t think we do it enough.
Most people, rightly so, believe that oral sex is an extremely low-risk activity for HIV exposure. (www.planetout.com/health/hiv/ )
There are, though, a number of things that *can* be transmitted orally, including syphilis, gonorrhea, chlamydia and herpes. Currently, San Francisco is in the midst of a syphilis epidemic ( www.healthypenis.org/news/execPlan.pdf ) and given our tendency to gather together in bunny piles with some frequency, it could spread quite rapidly in our community.
There was also a recent study that linked HPV, oral sex, and throat cancer. ( www.webmd.com/sexual-cond...hroat-cancer )
I would also like to point out that, while the community gathered together to effectively deal with HIV and AIDS in the ‘80s and ‘90s, that was as a *reaction* to the epidemic. It hit first, it hit hard, and it hit here. We will likely have more pandemics in the future and it would be nice if San Francisco was doing the right things *before* something like that hit.
Let some other city be the poster child for a new disease.
I mean, think about it. They’re up to Hepatitis G now, what are Hepatitis Q, R, or S going to do to us when they come around? Given the evolution of pathogens in general, what happens if we start seeing antibiotic-resistant forms of gonorrhea and chlamydia—oh wait, we are starting to see some of those: ( www.aegis.com/news/wb/2004/WB040501.html )
So, I said this was something I was going to address on a personal level, what that means is that I intend to do fellatio with oral condoms and cunnilingus and rimming with non-microwavable Saran Wrap with everyone, even my fluid-bonded partner when we are playing in public. In the past, because we are fluid bonded, we just sort of ran off to a corner of the play party and squished away there.
What you choose to do is your business. I think it would be good for me to set a good example and help eroticize the whole oral-barrier scene. It is my hope that other people might be motivated by the above to do the same thing. At the very least, I want to promote it to the point where it doesn’t seem like an odd activity or an activity you’re doing because you’re forced to because of a partner’s status. I would like to see it viewed as a normal and acceptable activity in our community.
I care about all of you and I want to see you healthy and happy and participating in all of the fun sexual activities that the Bay Area has to offer for as long as you wish to.
posted by:
|
SF Bay Area
|
-
Re: More Barriers
Wed, February 27, 2008 - 10:04 AMThank you for posting this. As a newby, I've actually found it rather appalling that so many experienced/regular players still have oral sex without barriers. I consider it a fluid bond and will not do it, either privately or publicly without a barrier, or without a fluid bond negotiation in place. Even were I fluid bonded to someone, I would not do it in public play without a barrier even if only for the ethics of setting good example. In negotiations with play partners, I have been unpleasantly surprised that oral sex is seen as such a low risk activity. I am also sad to report that I've had to break off a negotiation/play opportunity which otherwise may have been great because the other party refused to use barriers. I am 'clean' and am vigilant about keeping myself that way. I am happy to see that at least a few others are taking this risk seriously. I fully support this! -
-
Re: More Barriers
Wed, July 9, 2008 - 9:24 PM<<Even were I fluid bonded to someone, I would not do it in public play without a barrier even if only for the ethics of setting good example.>>
That seems very extreme. -
-
Re: More Barriers
Thu, July 10, 2008 - 11:54 AMIf you're talking about penetration (vaginal or anal) in public play, it's a matter of law in San Francisco.... fluid bonded or no, you better use a barrier if you do it at a sex or kink club.
-
-
-
Re: More Barriers
Thu, February 28, 2008 - 10:03 AMI agree 100%!! I'm really glad that the lesbian community seems to be picking up on this too. I remember just a few years ago at the college health clinic they told me that if I'm only having sex with women my STD risk was low *end of conversation* Now that I'm a sex worker I know better than that! I also use condoms on all toys and dildos because of the risk of spreading bacteria. -
-
Re: More Barriers
Thu, February 28, 2008 - 12:47 PMI'm glad to see this subject addressed. I've used barriers nearly every time for intercourse with women and always when receiving intercourse from a man. However, I've never used a barrier when performing oral on a woman on the assumption she wouldn't approve and have mostly relied on quitting before ejaculation when performing on a man. I've wanted to go have good times at men's clubs such as Blow Buddies but have been told that most men go there with the expectation of doing oral bareback, which I would never be willing to do in that setting with strangers. Is safe sex practiced at the men's nights at the Citadel and Edges? I hate to admit it, but I've been surprised at the number of times a woman has performed oral on me and done so bareback without hesitation. I knew I was healthy. Just the same, I should have insisted on protection even if they didn't seem inclined to ask for it. -
-
Re: More Barriers
Thu, February 28, 2008 - 1:04 PMIf they have syphilis in their throat, you can get it from being blown, as I understand it.
-
-
-
Re: More Barriers
Wed, March 5, 2008 - 9:40 AMJust a big "Yay!" for the posts I've seen here.
-
Re: More Barriers
Mon, March 17, 2008 - 6:51 PMI think we should ban the removal of clothes and any and all hugging and kissing. If less people had physical contact with others, far less disease of all types would be passed along.
I don't have multiple partners, I don't run through fluid bonded partners once a week, I don't play casually with others. I have no problem with those who do. However, you want to apply their rules to me to make me safe. Let's turn this around. I want a rule where you have to bring the same partner to every event, cannot play with anyone else, and if you have no partner you cannot play at events until you have been with someone a year or more. Stinks doesn't it?
I love pubic play in public. Play in general has become so sterile on so many levels do we need to narrow it down further? Do we want the safety police running everything in our lives? Lets add a "safe sex referree" to the idiotic dungeon master association so we have another group of control freaks to "make things safe" for mediocrity.
-
-
Re: More Barriers
Mon, July 7, 2008 - 3:47 PMWho the hell uses condoms for giving oral sex to men?
For cocks or toys that get put into an anus/vagina, yeah I can see that but sucking cock? Why would you even want to?
Also why would you use a dental dam for rimming? As far as diseases go you can get vaccinated for Hep A and Hep B. -
-
Re: More Barriers
Mon, July 7, 2008 - 3:49 PMThe same goes for getting oral sex with a condom on.
-
Re: More Barriers
Mon, July 7, 2008 - 7:09 PMOh sure, because E.Coli isn't ever an issue.
There are more factors than just regular STDs when it comes to rimming.
I must say that I am very on the fence about the issue of barriers. I am fluid bonded with my partner because we both know we are clean and have a bond of trust and love. I don't like to be denied that, even in public play spaces but I understand why the barrier requirement is necessary.
-
Re: More Barriers
Tue, July 8, 2008 - 10:00 AMFew people DO, but more people SHOULD. Do you want syphilis? You can get it through uncovered oral in either direction. -
-
Re: More Barriers
Tue, July 8, 2008 - 6:42 PM>Few people DO, but more people SHOULD. Do you want syphilis? You can get it through uncovered oral in either direction. <
No I don't want syphilis but it's easy to cure and if a man has it and it's not treated you can easily tell.
Also I don't see why you'd use gloves when you finger a man's ass or a woman's vagina.
There's such a thing as soap and water or hand sanitizer if you're paranoid.
I can see why you'd use gloves for fisting but for just a finger that seems like overkill unless you have a cut on it. -
-
Re: More Barriers
Wed, July 9, 2008 - 12:00 AMIt's attitudes and ignorance like yours that reflect why this post was necessary in the first place. It would be great if more men didn't assume oral sex on them should be condomless. I agree with the original post that what we consider normal needs to change. Just as condoms are considered part of standard operating procedure for safer vaginal and anal penetration, barrier methods for oral sex between non-fluid-bonded partners of all genders should be the norm. I don't think gloves are overkill with non-fluid-bonded partners either. Meryl -
-
Re: More Barriers
Wed, July 9, 2008 - 2:44 AMFrankly, I would rather masturbate than fuck with barriers, which is why I never bother with casual sex or play.
The problem comes in when we have to consider what is "responsible" to do as a community in regards to public play. Sadly, the ability of people like myself to safely have unprotected sex puts pressure on those who can't, to have it anyway. Thus the rules tend to sink to the lowest common denominator and thus we have the rules requiring protected sex.
What irks me is that often the rules "for" safe sex seem more gendered to prevent the terrifying appearance of a, GASP, male cock at a pansexual event. Women fucking and sucking always seems to be encouraged but try and fuck a woman and WOA we can't have any of that crazy stuff going on!
However, community events by necessity have to have rules that are tailored to work for the community as a whole (no pun intended) and not necessarily for the individual. Sadly, for me, that means I will for the most part forego most sexual play in public, but that is the price we pay for a healthier community in general and in the long run, it seems a fair trade off. -
-
Re: More Barriers
Thu, July 10, 2008 - 11:56 AMHave you tried masturbating with a condom? Sometimes it's just a matter of learning to eroticize latex.
Tip: put a little lube inside an otherwise unlubed condom. -
-
Re: More Barriers
Thu, July 10, 2008 - 12:57 PM<<If you're talking about penetration (vaginal or anal) in public play, it's a matter of law in San Francisco.... fluid bonded or no, you better use a barrier if you do it at a sex or kink club. >>
That may be correct & I for one would never publicly say anything to contradict the law, to suggest that I have ever broken the law or would ever consider breaking a law no matter how silly I may feel said law is.
<<Have you tried masturbating with a condom? Sometimes it's just a matter of learning to eroticize latex.
Tip: put a little lube inside an otherwise unlubed condom. >>
Lube, no lube a condom isn't erotic at least to me. Lube, no lube a dental damm isn't erotic and doesn't taste good, doesn't taste like sex which is part of the pleasure of oral sex be it on a man or a woman.
Everyone has to decide for themselves their safety levels, personally if I feel the need to use barrier protection with someone for oral then I will find someone else to play with, just as simple as that. The fact that I have lived my life cleanly and free *knock on wood* of any sexual bugs suggests that I have chosen wisely so far. But if you get off on sucking on silicone or rubber go for it.
-
-
-
-
Re: More Barriers
Fri, July 11, 2008 - 10:11 AMif you have a partner like mine who bites his nails and they are constantly rough and dirty, well then gloves it is because I'm not willing to do any fingering ass or pussy with his dirty rough ragged nails. And once you bite them that low, there's no just neatening them up there's no nail left. Plus gloves just decrease my risk for UTI's and yeast infections and unintentional scratches.
And as someone who has gotten poop on my hands , and yes of course I scrubbed my hands well, the smell of poop doesn't always go away with hand washing.
-
-
-
-
-
Re: More Barriers
Wed, July 9, 2008 - 4:12 PMI'm definitely for the barriers -- giving or receiving, fucking, oral, fingers etc. I don't want to unnecessarily contract anything, even if it can be cured through modern chemistry. I'll violate the rule for oral now and then, but always with somebody I know on some level. I'd love to go to places like Blowbuddies and EROS, but my impression is that the guys who go there are pretty much into unprotected action, at least when it comes to oral. Does anybody know from experience whether or not that's the case? -
-
Re: More Barriers
Thu, July 10, 2008 - 4:29 PMMeryl-Chill out.
If you want to have oral sex or manual sex (like fingering) with latex barriers or do rimming with barriers that's fine.
I'm just saying that most people don't want to do it and it does seem like A LOT of overkill, just like living life in a plastic bubble.
OMG you guys! You can get MRSA, herpes, and HPV from skin to skin contact too!
Let's encase ourselves in full body latex/saran wrap and just roll on top of each other so there's no skin to skin contact! /sarcasm.
I have had sex on both the east and west coast and in SF y'all seem to take safer sex WAY too seriously going overboard with condoms for giving/getting oral sex/dental dams for rimming, gloves for fingering, and it's not like that in NYC.
Sex should be enjoyable and fingering/being fingered or getting blown/sucking cock with a condom isn't fun, and neither is rimming with a dental dam. I doubt that giving women oral sex with a dental dam is that fun or enjoyable either.
Safer sex is good and all but there's such a thing as going way too far with it and this thread reminds me of 1980s gay porns where they did use safe sex practices like using condoms for oral sex giving and getting, saran wrap for rimming, and gloves for fingering and nobody got cum sprayed on them and it's back when information about HIV was widely unknown but today it just seems like pointless paranoia.
Before anyone puts words into my mouth. I'm not saying that people shouldn't do safer sex practices if it makes them feel better or safer, or use condoms for anal/vaginal sex, put condoms on toys, or use gloves for fisting.
I'm just saying that the whole idea of using gloves for fingering, condoms for giving/getting oral sex, and dental dams for rimming is going way overboard and there's such a thing as being so paranoid about being safe that you just have to laugh yourself and at all of it and get over your fears of minor STDs that are easily noticable in yourself and others, and are easily cured.
Yes it's theoretically possible to get HIV from giving/getting oral sex or even manual sex like mutual masturbation and fingering/rimming an anus, as there's no such thing as safer sex; but the chances are VERY low and you'd have to have lots of festing and bleeding cuts/sores in your mouth or on your penis or hands. Yeah I'm being graphic but that's the truth.
Driving a car or taking public transportation is way more dangerous than unprotected/barrier free oral/manual sex, yet most of us do it daily without thinking, and statistically you're more likely to get in a bad/fatal car accident than get HIV from giving oral sex or from getting HIV from rimming/fingering an anus, or from mutual masturbation.
Like Simon wrote if I think or know that a guy has an STD or HIV I won't be having sex with him.
John-I've been to Blow buddies other all male sex venues and honestly if a guy wanted to use condoms for giving/getting head, gloves/condoms for jacking off, and gloves for fingering lots of men would look at him weird and most men wouldn't want to have sex with him or use latex barriers like that.
Why not create a club for latex/safer sex enthusiasts called Latex Buddies? -
-
Re: More Barriers
Thu, July 10, 2008 - 10:14 PMI've done my share of riskier sex, and I feel fortunate to have not gotten anything, although I easily could have. In the future, however, I plan to be more careful should I engage in sex on a casual basis. I know that that will limit my choice of partners, and that's the consequence I face. I am just hoping that barrier use for the prevention of STIs (not just HIV) would be considered more acceptable in such situations.
Like Dave, I hate using barriers (except for anal), so I'm in a closed, fluid-bonded poly relationship. I'd rather not have to use barriers at dungeons with my poly partners, but if that's the policy, I'll abide by it. It is my understanding that at at least one dungeon in SF the policy of using barriers for sex (between/among anyone, whether fluid-bonded or not) came out of a request from the gay men's community.
I'd like to add that in the case of poly relationships, if people aren't careful with barrier usage, they expose not only themselves but also their partners to risk.
Certainly, people can take the argument about barrier usage to its extreme, as Dave and others have done (plastic bubble sex) to make the points seem ridiculous. But that's a false strategy to me because decisions about safer sex are not made all in the extreme. Every time we have sex, we make a series of choices about what we will do with whom in what holes and with what body parts or toys, etc. And people can elect to use barriers or not at every one of those choices. I am in favor of it being more acceptable to use barriers in more of those choices between partners engaging in casual sex.
One final comment: Part of my thinking on this subject comes from the recognition that, generally speaking, women and men are not equal in our society in terms of power. So if a woman is negotiating casual sex with a man in a male-dominated world, his norm likely has a better chance of determining what will happen. As Dave has pointed out, it is much more preferable to a man not to use a condom. Now if it is two men negotiating sex, gender inequality is not a factor. In the case of the female and male couple, if she wants the man to wear a condom for oral sex, she'd likely be considered a prude or into bubble sex (or told to "chill out"). However, if our societal norms were different, she might not face those criticisms and instead be thought of as a smart woman who knows how to have a good time at reduced risk of infection with STIs.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth.
Meryl
-
-
Re: More Barriers
Sat, July 12, 2008 - 2:52 AMI have to confess that I have never used a barrier for oral on a woman. Frankly, I've never met a woman who seemed the least bit interested in using one for that. However, when it comes to casual sex, I feel that I should take the initiative and at least discuss it with her without waiting for her to raise the subject. Using a barrier for giving or receiving oral with a man is a bummer in terms sensation for giver and receiver and in terms of not being able to have a guy shoot cum into my mouth, but so are those nasty things you can catch. I try to make up for it by having the guy pull out and cum on my face. When it comes to anal play, I would prefer using barriers even if there were no diseases lurking out there. Whether I'm getting poked with a finger, dildo or cock, it's just more sanitary -- without any sacrifice of sensation. I don't ass-fuck men or women very often, but the barrier doesn't bother me at all when I do.
-
-
-
